You have a group of shoppers that are boycotting brands they feel have backtracked on positions they previously held and you have income inequality getting worse so people can't afford the things they used to. Companies will feel the squeeze on both sides of those things.
Inequality getting worse is definitely going to start impacting company sales more and more. IMO we are watching the math of perpetual "growth" hit a finite world.
Recessions happen all the time. What makes you think it's not that but "perpetual "growth" hit a finite world"? What bottlenecks are we running into that's causing growth to stop?
Tariffs might be a cause of the next recession, but they aren’t a sign of some fundamentalists on perpetual growth like OP was asking about. They’re just the arbitrary doing of one man.
I mean, the middle class finally died a decade ago and all the money was siphoned off to the top. I don’t think is has much to do with growth in it of itself
The upper classes have extracted growth from a slowing curve by carving more and more out of the middle and lower classes. To them it looks like growth, but it's really just stealing from the bottom to pad the curve.
It’s pretty wild to me that if a US political party were to genuinely try to and implement a degrowth policy this would be a very good start. Increased uncertainty to cause pullback in corporate investment. Large tariffs to reduce consumption and shorten supply chains. Major reductions in government spending.
It's a terrible start. Shortening of supply chains will be slow and painful because: a) why invest in local production if the tariffs may be scrapped next week? b) where to get money if building a new factory is hit by the same tariffs? The gov spending is increasing, not getting reduced. The consumption will be lower though.
A good start would've been: the tariffs start increasing today, reaching full force in 5 years, not affecting (stuff most needed for factories), with plan guaranteed not to change over the next N years.
One small silver lining in all this is perhaps that it is such a clear cause and effect that people will remember in future. So many economic levers take many months or years to really play out, but everyone can grasp that the president imposed big tariffs on every country and the economy instantly tanked.
I doubt it, people will forget in a generation or two. How many people have actually read The Jungle? How many people have actually seen our rivers on fire? How many people remember when the air was so polluted going outside would kill you? How many people remember corporations hiring private armies and literally killing their employees because they dared to strike? The people that benefit from so many of our laws are cheering their removal without understanding why they're there.
It was mandatory reading in my high school curriculum.
> How many people have actually seen our rivers on fire?
I grew up with two family members who would tell us stories about exactly that. Since I was a kid, that has been my mental go-to on “why” clean water legislation.
> How many people remember corporations hiring private armies and literally killing their employees because they dared to strike?
The Pinkertons and so on? Alive and well in spirit unfortunately at places like Constellis (formerly Xe, formerly Blackwater). People haven’t forgotten about that, although it’d be nice if more people held the line against such things. FDR was spot on about the MIC/DIB.
> The people that benefit from so many of our laws are cheering their removal without understanding why they're there.
Indeed. I believe there is an old adage about how one shouldn’t tear down a fence without knowing why it’s there.
A generation or two (25-50 years) would be an incredible result. These days it's a miracle if anything has consequences more than a year or two down the track.
People are unaware that companies were so daring to add chalk to milk and random dark substances to coffee. Unregulated capitalism is not something we should want to return to.
A generation or two? Try four years. Donald Trump ran under a platform of "was your life better in 2020 or 2024?" to a cheering crowd. I don't know about you, but I remember 2020 as The Year Without Christmas. My mother loves seeing her children at Christmas time, but she canceled Christmas that year.
Now I’m not suggesting that your mom blames the President for a pandemic, but if there was a reason to cancel Christmas that year, it wasn’t because of politics.
We (as in humanity) barely had the vaccine by Christmas.
Precisely the wrong guy to have in office to competently manage a second pandemic.
My complaint isn't even the virus. It is that they thought that was the best year in American history, but for most people, that was our worst year (in living memory). In 4 years when it becomes time to vote again, they are going to completely forget the tariffs, layoffs, high prices and empty shelves.
It may make less of an effect that you hope, especially this early in the election cycle. People's memories aren't great and if things look like they are improving at election time, people may choose the incumbent even if the same person caused all the problems.
I already told my wife and family this is going to be a dramatically pared back summer. Try not to get laid off. Try not to die. Try to not sow the seeds of your own demise.
oops. Maybe corporate America should have taken the fascist candidate with the proven track record of destruction at his own words, and donated money to conservative (aka Democratic) candidates instead.
Honestly after resuming use of Aliexpress for last minute stocking up of industrialish goods, and seeing how much stuff on there now ships direct from US warehouses, I'll likely keep checking them in addition to Amazon/eBay.
>Maybe corporate America should have taken the fascist candidate with a proven track record of destruction at his own words, and donated money to conservative (aka Democratic) candidates instead.
Putting aside the laughable implication that "corporate America" is some sort of monolith that can agree on one party to support, is there even evidence that they supported the Republican Party more? The Democratic Party out raised them in the last cycle.
A quick glance at the front row of the inauguration seems to imply they are in fact a monolith. Not to mention how many corporations immediately bent the knee for this administration before even being asked.
It certainly seems so. They thought the annoying consumer protection, environmental and safety regulations will go. They thought they will be able to defraud more and with inpunity. That there will ve more corruption and they will venefit from it.
Stock Market went up after Teump being elected, because the above allows for short term enrichment and they know it.
Plus, quite a few support project 2025, Musks conpanies cant work without him being in goverment, plus quite a few (including Musk) are genuine far right.
True, I should clarify that I meant that the US economy is currently (and historically) based on a high level of consumer spending. Therefore companies are in for a shock when that level drops due to people spending less.
You have a group of shoppers that are boycotting brands they feel have backtracked on positions they previously held and you have income inequality getting worse so people can't afford the things they used to. Companies will feel the squeeze on both sides of those things.
Inequality getting worse is definitely going to start impacting company sales more and more. IMO we are watching the math of perpetual "growth" hit a finite world.
Recessions happen all the time. What makes you think it's not that but "perpetual "growth" hit a finite world"? What bottlenecks are we running into that's causing growth to stop?
I mean, the extremely obvious answer is tarrifs at the moment.
Tariffs might be a cause of the next recession, but they aren’t a sign of some fundamentalists on perpetual growth like OP was asking about. They’re just the arbitrary doing of one man.
I mean, the middle class finally died a decade ago and all the money was siphoned off to the top. I don’t think is has much to do with growth in it of itself
The upper classes have extracted growth from a slowing curve by carving more and more out of the middle and lower classes. To them it looks like growth, but it's really just stealing from the bottom to pad the curve.
i think things they are producing are not that tempting anymore.
Given the success of Wish, Shein, and Temu, I don't agree with that. People want to buy stuff even if its complete trash.
I don't have money so it's not a boycott by choice... just incredibly poor, depressed and under water
You’re not alone. In my experience this presently describes most people who don’t work in technology or traditionally very well-heeled fields.
It’s pretty wild to me that if a US political party were to genuinely try to and implement a degrowth policy this would be a very good start. Increased uncertainty to cause pullback in corporate investment. Large tariffs to reduce consumption and shorten supply chains. Major reductions in government spending.
> this would be a very good start.
It's a terrible start. Shortening of supply chains will be slow and painful because: a) why invest in local production if the tariffs may be scrapped next week? b) where to get money if building a new factory is hit by the same tariffs? The gov spending is increasing, not getting reduced. The consumption will be lower though.
A good start would've been: the tariffs start increasing today, reaching full force in 5 years, not affecting (stuff most needed for factories), with plan guaranteed not to change over the next N years.
One small silver lining in all this is perhaps that it is such a clear cause and effect that people will remember in future. So many economic levers take many months or years to really play out, but everyone can grasp that the president imposed big tariffs on every country and the economy instantly tanked.
I doubt it, people will forget in a generation or two. How many people have actually read The Jungle? How many people have actually seen our rivers on fire? How many people remember when the air was so polluted going outside would kill you? How many people remember corporations hiring private armies and literally killing their employees because they dared to strike? The people that benefit from so many of our laws are cheering their removal without understanding why they're there.
Perhaps I’m not typical, but:
> How many people have actually read The Jungle?
It was mandatory reading in my high school curriculum.
> How many people have actually seen our rivers on fire?
I grew up with two family members who would tell us stories about exactly that. Since I was a kid, that has been my mental go-to on “why” clean water legislation.
> How many people remember corporations hiring private armies and literally killing their employees because they dared to strike?
The Pinkertons and so on? Alive and well in spirit unfortunately at places like Constellis (formerly Xe, formerly Blackwater). People haven’t forgotten about that, although it’d be nice if more people held the line against such things. FDR was spot on about the MIC/DIB.
> The people that benefit from so many of our laws are cheering their removal without understanding why they're there.
Indeed. I believe there is an old adage about how one shouldn’t tear down a fence without knowing why it’s there.
A generation or two (25-50 years) would be an incredible result. These days it's a miracle if anything has consequences more than a year or two down the track.
People are unaware that companies were so daring to add chalk to milk and random dark substances to coffee. Unregulated capitalism is not something we should want to return to.
A generation or two? Try four years. Donald Trump ran under a platform of "was your life better in 2020 or 2024?" to a cheering crowd. I don't know about you, but I remember 2020 as The Year Without Christmas. My mother loves seeing her children at Christmas time, but she canceled Christmas that year.
Now I’m not suggesting that your mom blames the President for a pandemic, but if there was a reason to cancel Christmas that year, it wasn’t because of politics.
We (as in humanity) barely had the vaccine by Christmas.
Precisely the wrong guy to have in office to competently manage a second pandemic.
My complaint isn't even the virus. It is that they thought that was the best year in American history, but for most people, that was our worst year (in living memory). In 4 years when it becomes time to vote again, they are going to completely forget the tariffs, layoffs, high prices and empty shelves.
I mean we Americans have literally already forgotten Nazi Germany, or maybe we were never really taught it in a way that was meaningful.
I truly wonder about the people who read Night by Eli Weisel in middle school or high school and don’t see a problem with what’s going on now.
It may make less of an effect that you hope, especially this early in the election cycle. People's memories aren't great and if things look like they are improving at election time, people may choose the incumbent even if the same person caused all the problems.
I fully expect that in 4 years Musk, Fox News et al will be talking about how Biden's tariffs ruined the economy.
I already told my wife and family this is going to be a dramatically pared back summer. Try not to get laid off. Try not to die. Try to not sow the seeds of your own demise.
You should get a beat and make this a TikTok as a theme song for the inevitable market crash.
Pared back summer
No gas for the Hummer
Inevitable... market... crash! bang! boom!
I got Spam cans 'n Twinkies piled high in my room
Just in time to join the hopeless core trend.
Recession creepin while you sleepin
Next 2008 gonna be a bummer
oops. Maybe corporate America should have taken the fascist candidate with the proven track record of destruction at his own words, and donated money to conservative (aka Democratic) candidates instead.
Honestly after resuming use of Aliexpress for last minute stocking up of industrialish goods, and seeing how much stuff on there now ships direct from US warehouses, I'll likely keep checking them in addition to Amazon/eBay.
>Maybe corporate America should have taken the fascist candidate with a proven track record of destruction at his own words, and donated money to conservative (aka Democratic) candidates instead.
Putting aside the laughable implication that "corporate America" is some sort of monolith that can agree on one party to support, is there even evidence that they supported the Republican Party more? The Democratic Party out raised them in the last cycle.
A quick glance at the front row of the inauguration seems to imply they are in fact a monolith. Not to mention how many corporations immediately bent the knee for this administration before even being asked.
The GP is talking about before the election, but you seem to be talking about after the election. Those are very different situations.
Before election: https://www.newsweek.com/american-businesses-supporting-dona... - they're basically the same.
So some companies donated 1M to republicans. How much did they donate to democrats?
It certainly seems so. They thought the annoying consumer protection, environmental and safety regulations will go. They thought they will be able to defraud more and with inpunity. That there will ve more corruption and they will venefit from it.
Stock Market went up after Teump being elected, because the above allows for short term enrichment and they know it.
Plus, quite a few support project 2025, Musks conpanies cant work without him being in goverment, plus quite a few (including Musk) are genuine far right.
[flagged]
Most people in the US have some orientation towards independence and self-reliance, which economically translates to curtailing superfluous expenses.
Most people in the US live beyond their means through credit card debt.
I don't really see how that holds, historically it clearly hasn't?
True, I should clarify that I meant that the US economy is currently (and historically) based on a high level of consumer spending. Therefore companies are in for a shock when that level drops due to people spending less.
I eat aluminum cans!
You're either saying something obvious and universal, or something blatantly false.